Horse Folks Are Horse Folks, We Aren't So Different After All

The one thing that amazes me is refusals. A show jumper will have a refusal and they will think nothing of it and probably enter the next class which might be even bigger! An eventer would be devastated if their horse had a refusal and would rather have a pole down instead.

Spent a weekend at Wellington. It was eye opening! The horses were extremely loved by their grooms. I saw some really gorgeous riders. But the family I was with didn't know a dandy brush from a hole in the ground. Okay, fine. Horse is still loved. But one thing that struck me is that I was playing with one of the girl's horses who was a big love bunny and the girl had no idea what I was doing. She's never loved on horse before. And I felt bad for her to miss such a gift that's right in front her. She went to college and never rode again.
She was in an elite barn but I do know of quite few big a hunters that are every bit of horsemen that eventers are. But I think they are quiet and we don't notice them. Some come to school x-c and boy, they put us to shame. Just popping over the prelim jumps, no biggie. Then again, these are the big a rated hunters, not the crotch riders of the lower shows.

I think that what exists between the Horse Show people and Eventers is Xenaphobia. Having played extensively in both sandboxes, I can attest to the fact that there are fantastic horse people and riders in both sports. However, there seems to be pervasive stereotyping in both sports as well. While eventers see h/j people as being uneducated regarding horse care (no knowing a "dandy brush from a hole in the ground" to quote Lisab) , h/j people see eventers and poor (or maybe just sloppy) riders (snatching their horses in the mouth and cowboying around the x-c course. Both disciplines have their benefits. Learning to be consistent, subtle and accurate in the hunters has served me well. Impulsion, letting go and allowing my horse to think for himself have been the major lessons that I have learned eventing.

In short: both disciples have their strengths and weaknesses. Instead of stereotyping each other maybe we should take the time to learn from each other.

I have participated in both eventing and H/J. What I find frustrating about eventing is that a trainer, or simply a more experienced rider can't school a horse when a rider is having trouble. At one horse trials I saw a young beginner novice rider have to withdraw simply because her pony was being naughty in the warm up arena. A trainer most likely could have ironed out the kinks and prepared the pony for the child. In eventing it is an all or nothing mentality. My own adult student was in tears during her dressage warm-up because the horse she was riding was acting up. I happen to know the horse, he's mine, and he acts like a jerk for the first fifteen minutes or so then settles down. There are times when a more experienced hand could simply create a more positive riding experience for the competitor. The competitor still has to go out and compete. No matter how much help a hunter rider is given before their ride, the ride is still theirs alone. I also find it alarming when bad riding is rewarded. Certainly at the lower levels of eventing poor riding is rewarded. Event riders would benefit from the equitation ring. Hunter riders would benefit from the experience of riding in the open field over natural elements. As riders we should find the positive in other disciplines and support each other. After all, it should be about the love of the horse.

I agree with anonymous. I am one of the few H/J'ers who tacks and grooms my own horse. I try to instill that in my kids and they also do it all on their own. We cant afford to hire a small army of people to do what we can do on our own. I dont have the guts to do X-c but i am also not the stuck up barbie doll H/J'er :) Im very humble and am thankful for the Poe knees that come in to my life (i call them all ponys even when they are 16 hh plus lol)and give them all the love that most only get from their grooms. Its good to be "together" with your horse. If they know you love them they will love you back and do almost anything for you.

I sort of have to disagree about watching hunters for their good positions. I despise the "praying mantis" release and the too-long stirrups that I see photos of in COTH week in and week out.

But I would love to see a derby class. Those are making a comeback recently and I think that's truly what hunters should be (from my eventing standpoint) because it seems to be what they originally did.

Lindsay, I too love the look ;o) But that is probably the hunters and not the eq. What I saw in the eq classes was really lovely. Hunters, well, like they say, they can be a monkey humping a football just so long as the horse is looking great. And I've seen some schooling x-c and playing around, they can ride circles around me. Won't make me don a pair of TS breeches and purple shirt but wouldn't mind riding like them.

Pony Club. That's where they'd learn it all. I really sympathize with kids who come for a lesson, get on-ride-get off-drive away-repeat, and don't get to hang out at the barn all day, playing with horses and learning from people interested in teaching them stable management. I've heard of stables where kids aren't _allowed_ to hang out, because of liability. Hard to imagine a barn without barn rats. Not to mention all that free labor. Our school horses were always spotless.

I agree - Pony club all the way!!!! best horse life skills out there.

I have always found hunter so boring. but the Jumper is cool!!!

to add - I actually had Jack Legoff tell me YEARS ago, that I had to do more Jumper to improve my Stadium in eventing. lalalala
he saw us on a bad day.
:-) big grin!

1. like Scopey said. Pony club.
2. I live near a h/j barn and they are seriously the nicest people ever. Even nice to me-lives-down-the-street-hacks-over-shaggy-unruly-beast. Total mindblower for me after the HITS and WEF scene where they all look so mean they want to eat you for breakfast or beat you with their blingy belts.
3. Like others have said...Probably any sport looks really stupid and really beautiful depending on who's doing it. The H/J lady down the street thinks eventers ride unsmooth jump rounds, so I try to let a bit of her hunter eye inform my jumping.
4. PS I loved that the big time European jumper riders could totally kick butt in those international hunter classes they did at the indoors. That was cool "sure, we can loop the reins, pick up a rhythmn and kick your TAIL!"

The author's observation of the flat class was interesting. I think a horse that shows a little life in the class shouldn't be penalized, but often is. Too often, the horses that go around like automatons are the ones that pin. Same over fences. The spectacular jumper that isn't absolutely steady will get pinned below the average jumper that gets all the strides and leads. This only leads to more endless lunging and trainers having to work a horse down before a class, rather than just letting him be a horse.

BTW, I have done hunters, jumpers, and eventing,in addition to foxhunting and timber racing. All disciplines have plusses and minuses. We all just need to learn from each other, as George Morris always says.

I've had a hard time finding an eventing coach in my area, particularly considering I lack the cash to pay for lessons. As such, I've been taking lessons at a h/j barn that lets me work off the fees. The barn is about two miles from where my horse, a darling Arabian mare, is stabled and from time to time I ride her there for my lessons. I'll also be riding her down to another farm two miles in the other direction for dressage lessons starting later this week. At both places, everyone has been shocked and/or amazed that I would rather ride her down the road than hitch up the truck and trailer, load her on and drive her two miles down the road and back!

To me, getting a horse accustomed to traffic and otherwise bomb-proof seems a very basic part of the training process. My mare really enjoys the change of scenery once in a while and every idiot driver that whizzes by us without so much as moving over helps desensitize her to the many strange things we might encounter at a show. Her confidence and my confidence in her have grown immensely as a result of our work outside the ring, both on the roads and XC. I think every arena-bound rider would benefit from getting out and hitting the roads and trails now and then. Perhaps then they'd learn, as my horse has, that the outside world isn't as big and scary as it seems!

That said, I have learned a lot in my h/j lessons. My position has improved immensely and I'm a much more efficient rider as a result. There are, indeed, some very good riders and horsemen hiding among all the h/j acolytes and we can certainly learn much from each other if we keep an open mind!

Wow. I have been following this website for quite a long time and for the most part agree w/ your take on things and have never written in before. So I was really dissapointed to read this review of Gulfport which is almost, a little ...hmmmm..well, "snarky" comes to mind. It only stuck out because I (an Eventer) went to this very show for a month a few years back before I could go to an event mecca in the winter. I met some fabulous and very helpful people and had a great time . The management was really nice and it was wonderful working side-by-side with some of the top Professionals who used these smaller rated shows to school their young horses. I just did the little children/adult jumpers (like Novice/Training) and really learned a lot about show jumping. There is no doubt there are pampered people in the sport. A lot of them leave their horses with professionals, come down on Thursday, show for a few days and go home. Because of the format, it is totally doable and everyone has a good time. I have seen many Eventers try to do the same thing with not such good results. Some of the February events in Aiken can get a little scary watching someone comedown for a few days and try to navigate the XC course when they have been sitting in an office all week.
This posting could go on an on but in a nutshell it is just not fair to cop that "Eventers are better" people sort of attitude. There are MORE than plenty of professionals churning out horses in our sport to make a buck, just like they do in the HJ world. But there are also some wonderfully trained horses and great horseman in their world too. Just ask Jimmy Wofford what he thinks about a good working hunter as compared to your average event stadium ride. It is rare to see one of "us" canter in perfect even cadance down to a 4 ft fence on a loose rein, pop over efforlessly and continue on to the next one. We can all learn a lot from each other and there are more similarities than how many dogs we have and motor scooters if we just open our eyes and maintain the good "spirit" we are all supposed to have..

I enjoyed reading everyone's comments, and agree that depending on who you're watching you will either get a good or bad impression on the sport.
A number of years ago a mother and daughter who rode hunters moved into our primarily eventing farm. I of course had my opinion of them before I even knew them and was pleasantly surprised to find out what amazing riders they both were, with beautiful equitation, and meticulous attention to detail as horsewomen and riders. I was also amazed to watch their gorgeous hunter horses lope up to a training or preliminary cross country fence and hop over it as smoothly as it was in the hunter ring. Talk about an eye opener!!
I actually began to take some lessons with their trainer and was thrilled with the result. I was nervous to mention it to my "eventing" coach until he mentioned what a great improvement my jumping had gone through, when I finally came clean. I would always encourage anyone looking at improving their show jumping to seek help from a hunter/jumper trainer and use hunter/jumper shows to school their event horses, just the same as a pure dressage rider and dressage shows can also be beneficial. It is a different world, but there is no reason we can't benefit from their strengths : )

On that note... why do some of our event horses or just "english" horses in general for that matter have such bad manners compared to western horses??
I had this sorely pointed out to me when I temporarily boarded at a western facility and my DWB gelding was walking on top of me, wouldn't tie up, pawed the ground when I was standing around, etc. Some round pen work with their trainer cleared up a lot of those issues and it was such a pleasure to have a puppy dog on a regular lead rope instead of a giant animal dragging me around. It was the first time in YEARS I didn't have to put a chain over a nose at a horse show! Thoughts?

Thanks for all these excellent responses! Knowing next to nothing about Jumpers and even less about Hunters, I learned a lot at Gulfport and had a great time just hanging out with horse folks. I'm glad to read about Eventers, H/J, Foxhunters and others willing and eager to learn from each other.

A quote by C.S. Lewis has been displayed in our barn for as long as I can remember: "No one can teach riding as well as a horse." He makes no mention of the horse's discipline!