Should the "Introductory Level" Be Recognized by the USEA?

As a California eventer, I think it's a fabulous addition to our events (I've only seen the one at Ram Tap). There really aren't many unrecognized events out here, so being able to welcome the less-experienced riders with a friendly division is really valuable.

If Intro becomes a recognized level, you can bet the entry fees will go up dramatically.

I'm not sure if there is a full moon tonight or what, but there have been a ton of comments by "Anonymous" today. I understand that we have top people in eventing who don't want to comment as themselves, and I also understand that many other people don't want to use their own names either to comment, but please take the extra second to come up with something other than "Anonymous" because it is much nicer and more convenient for everyone reading your comment. How about using your area code like "The859" does, or something like "John is ugly," or, if all else fails, try "I'm uncreative."

Hey John,
Anonymous is the default on here if you don't want/have time to sign in. That's why you're seeing so many Anons.

I don't know anything about entry fees going up, but I can assure you that the Intro level would increase the number of entries!!!
I have competed in Intro, as an adult, new to the sport, not on a pony but a big giant Chicken. It is so much less intimidating to go around for your first time and canter over the most adorable jumps you have ever seen.
Just ask Bill at Ram Tap. The largest division in April was INTRO. Between Senior and Junior divisions, there were 30 entries, almost all of which finished. It's an awesome stepping stone and definitely growing and expanding to other venues in CA. PLUS the ponies are SOOOO CUUUUUUTE!!! (with names like Banana Boat, Miss Strawberry Shortcake and Lady Mudpie how can you resist the deliciousness of INTRO?!!!)

The mistake might be mine for not explaining to everyone how the comment system works, but anyone can simple put a name in the "Name" field without signing on, and that will show up with their comment in grey. People who sign on have their names in blue, and they can upload their own pictures and have their own profiles, etc.

I ride in Area 8 & have to say that we have a large number of the Intro level offered. While not at recognized events, they are always offered at Mini events which, in my opinion, are just as great as the recognized evetns if not better! There is also a Very Green division which is a step up from the Intro, but the jumps are not set as high as the BN level.
These levels are a fantastic way for young horses, young riders, or just riders who are not comfortable with going XC yet to get the fell of how an event works.
I would love to see one of these divisions at a recognized event! The mini events draw a great crowd of riders, many who ride in the Very Green or Intro division. It might just be worth a Event host to add one of these division based on the number of participants I've seen entered in them.

I am all for recognized Intro. Level division at USEA events. I am a very beginner eventer and I recognize and respect the challenges of the sport. I have participated in exactly two events - both at Tadpole or Intro. level. Both events I attended were USEA recognized with a full slate of Beginner Novice through Prelim. levels, in addition to the Intro. Level.

My husband would not allow me to attend a mini-event or unrecognized event because he felt the quality of judges, jump construction and safety wouldn't be up to snuff.

His reasoning was that if a facility held a Tadpole or Intro. level division during their USEA recognized event, the facility put in the extra effort to build safe fences and courses, use rated judges, and have appropriate safety team/ambulance on the grounds for the Intro riders and horses.

Can you tell he is not a huge fan of eventing? However, he will let me compete only if I attend USEA recognized events. Cost of entries are not a concern for me. I am willing to pay for a safe course and stadium fences, quality judges and an ambulance on the grounds.

I wish there were MORE Intro. level classes at USEA events. Let me tell you what, the classes would fill up in a hurry. There are a lot of people who want to event, but aren't even up to Beginner Novice level yet. Why not give them a safe place to compete?

Where does it all end? Poles on the ground with a walk and trot dressage test? Personally I think unaffiliated does a great job and as an organiser of a unaff event over 1'9 it is a different standard and atmosphere that we aim for. We aim to encourage riders. I think standards should be maintained and people need to be a certain standard before they go affiliated.
Another thing I believe is that by increasing the number of levels on offer I believe the decline of the higher levels would speed up. Organisers would rather run popular events which make money and this is why we are seeing the decline of the top levels more and more.

I support the Intro division 100%! If our sport ends up as poles on the ground, I could care less. It's only our egos that would feel any pain. And it makes no sense at all to me to suggest that more intro riders causes the decline of top levels. More intro riders could mean more education and more people involved in the sport and more money to support the USEA - just exactly what we need, in my opinion.

Hey, I talked to the pint-sized rider of Itty Bitty Cocoa Puff after her ride and she was absolutely walking on air. I mean, ecstatic. Hows that for sportsmanship?

I've been to 3 schooling Green as Grass events, and they were a lot of fun for someone like me who just wants to PLAY, rides a green horse, etc.
All events were held the day following recognized 1-days, so we had some assurance of safety in the courses, etc. And, there was also Restricted BN, which was perfect for people with more jumping experience, but no EVENTING experience.
I think these are a wonderful way to address some of the unsafe riding at recognized BN and N. People who "don't know any better" enter recognized because there aren't enough opportunities to try something lower first. Giving them an environment in which to try out the sport really seems like a safer option to me.

I agree with Marie B: " There are a lot of people who want to event, but aren't even up to Beginner Novice level yet. Why not give them a safe place to compete? "

I run one of those Mini Events in Area VIII and I also run a 2' Starter division at my recognized events and interestingly enough I don't get nearly as many entries in my Starter Test at the recognized events as I do at the Minis. The cost is only $5 more, but I think some of the appeal is the schooling the day before. They are recognized right now as tests. You don't want them any more than that otherwise you'll have to charge starter fees and a whole lot more.

Jackie

Nothing wrong with an organizer adding an Intro level but please, don't make it a recognized USEA level. BN used to be a non-recognized level and I think it has lost the plot since it became USEA-recognized.

BN used to be an introductory level. Simple logs, simple and optional water passes, suitable for green horses and green riders. But now we have BN mini-Badmintons with logs into water, max height fences set on 3-stride distances, fences with all kinds of inappropriate decorations and an increase in speed to 350 mpm. (It has not ever been and will never be safe to jump small fences at speed so this change is preparing riders for nothing positive.) And we also have an American Eventing Championship at BN.

Can't wait to see the Intro course at the AECs.

I do think Intro is a nice addition to HTs in areas that have few schooling opportunities but the emphasis should stay on 'intro' and it should not have affiliation requirements.

The local D&CTA "recognizes" tons of events with "amoeba" and "tadpole" divisions each year, and I think its great. But I don't necessarily think the USEA needs to recognize those divisions a the national level; didn't training or prelim used to be the "entry level" of the sport?

The unrecognized levels are a fantastic way for less experienced riders (hi! I'm one of them!) to get familiar with riding cross country and understanding how to manage time, etc without paying the higher entry fees. If the divisions can be held in conjunction with a recognized event, thats fine, but some big name facilities around here still host schooling horse trials and include those lower than BN levels (Poplar Place does).

I plan on going to LOTS of "locally recognized" three phases and combined tests... even at BN... before going to a USEA recognized event and spending the big bucks on entries and hauling much farther from home.

No need to make them "recognized"...around here, there are a ton of them...from 18" to training level. Some of the local organizations even have year end awards etc. Several are run over the same courses or held at the same locations as recognized events. I think it is better to keep them low key...as well as keep the costs lower.

here in BC we have starter, then Pre-Entry, then Entry, Than Pretraining and so on.
The three lowest levels are well I guess recognized in the sence that you have to have all your damn memberships with EVERYONE to compete at it and it is rediculous!!!
IMO those three baby and before baby levels should not require being a member to anything. Just get these people riding!!!!
I cant stand the starter level personally. Our event doesnt have it. Two years ago there were a lot of starter riders and those people are now going entry. This year very very few starter riders at other events.
Not a good sign.
No new riders.
IMO because of all the stupid fees needed if it is recognized. Totally rediculous.
We want to encourage people to start eventing. Get the bug into them. Once they break the Entry level and head into Pre-training they are hooked and will be there for many years to come.
but these fees are holding people back.
Yes they need to be in proper riding gear and their horse also must be in proper gear. All the rules are the same just lay off the membership gunk.
AUGH
dont ranting.

JER-- "Nothing wrong with an organizer adding an Intro level but please, don't make it a recognized USEA level. BN used to be a non-recognized level and I think it has lost the plot since it became USEA-recognized."

Yes, yes and yes! Intro is great but please don't make it recognized. I will be stealing the phrase "lost the plot" in the near future!

Please remember, there are people who live in areas of the country which DO NOT have a nice selection of safe, unrecognized mini-events to choose from. The folks out East are spoiled with the large selection of places to begin eventing, even if it is at Intro./Starter/Tadpole level. Many areas of the country do not have this luxury.

I would rather do the lower levels (where I'm at now) at unrecognized shows where the entries are smaller and the atmosphere feels more relaxed. I get too nervous otherwise, and if I didn't put a ton of money into it, I don't stress so much and have more fun.

Also, I'd just like to pick on the names of these unrecognized divisions that I have seen... Hopeful, Tadpole, Grasshopper, etc. I'm sorry, but just because I don't have the guts or experience to jump big fences does not mean I'm not a grown up. I like the Introductory title. Can't that become standard? I just think the other names are kind of rude.

I am so thankful for the "Starter" division. My daughter recently took her "green-to-eventing" pony to THEIR first event and we are packing to leave for the 2nd tomorrow. They have been XC schooling a mere 3 times EVER, so it was such a thrill to watch them head off on their 1st XC course ALONE! I felt quite confident that it would go well knowing that the jumps were simple, the water was optional, and max height was 2'. They had a very successful trip, and would have had double clear if not for a bit of confusion with the watch. :D
SHE'S HOOKED! Had they not had Starter as an option, it may not have been such a great 1st event! Go Eventing!

So I'm not anonymous... I'm Chelan... In Canada as Andrea said we have 'pre-entry' which is 2'6" max and the level below the USA beginner novice. The divisions are huge and apart from the occasional ribbon grabber, most riders are not 'life-ers' it is the perfect place for kids on ponies and my first time amateurs who might be a little nervous jumping 2'9" entry Level (US BEG. novice) for the first time at an event. The divisions are at recognized shows up here. It's gets newbies out and trying our sport. There is a valuable place for these divisions.
Regarding the previous comment about this discouraging event organizers from running upper levels, I disagree. A larger base begets a larger upper level.

Marie -- "there are people who live in areas of the country which DO NOT have a nice selection of safe, unrecognized mini-events to choose from.."

I would hazard to guess that is because there isn't the demand for them. If there is there isn't any thing keeping your local events from running them un-recognized in addition to their recognized offerings.

But I strongly agree with JER that if we make Intro recognized it will quickly get mucked up. As someone that is often bringing on young horses we don't have a level anymore that is designed to teach young horses to gallop forward to a fence big enough to hold them a little (3 feet-ish) without also presenting problems that have been specifically designed to back a horse off. Let's establish "forward" in our lower level horses before we back them off with the technical.

In the UK several events have downgraded to a lower level from previously running higher events. Every year we lose intermediate and advanced events while we see more and more BN, N and training. Organisers have to make money so its an obvious way to do it as Intermediate and Advanced loses money. I know BE are currently looking into this problem as the base is so wide but the top of the triangle so small. I would just like to add I am not elitist and I am an amateur who rides at prelim so not exactly setting the world on fire!

As an older (55+) rider who never owned a horse until 2006 and had never jumped outside of a ring, I was extremely grateful for the starter (2') and elementary (2'3") divisions offered at Area II schooling HTs. I would hate to see these divisions recognized by USEA because that adds a lot of pressure on new or young riders (yikes! I'm performing for points! or I have to achieve a certain placing for championships!) and creates a tension that can only be communicated to the horse, even if it's an experienced packer. The point is to have a safe and fun ride and build a partnership that can take you to the next level.

To Marie B's point that the west coast doesn't have many options... I don't think anyone is saying that these lower-than-BN levels shouldn't be offered, they just dont think they should be *nationally* recognized for any number of reasons (red tape, cost of entries/memberships, etc).

Unrecognized Starter level at USEA events - Yes, please. Many eventers fund their entry fees/costs by helping students at the lower levels at events - reducing the costs for everyone by sharing trailering, hotels, tack stalls, etc. The starter level is a great place to begin - and a good place to hook Mom/Dad on eventing too - they may only ever do one starter, but they sure are more supportive of little Mary's dream once they've tasted it for themselves!

Gah! Don't make it recognized!
Marie B. what you need to do is hunt down the reputable mini events. And believe me, recognized will NOT make it up to snuff! Your hubby just doesn't want you out there with the rest of us crazies ;o)

" There are a lot of people who want to event, but aren't even up to Beginner Novice level yet. Why not give them a safe place to compete? "

If they aren't ready, why are they competing in a dangerous sport (horse back riding, never mind the eventing angle)?

I'm all for Intro level, and I have to commend the local-ish events around me (namely, GVRDC) for tacking an Intro level onto their recognized events. It allows one to experience the professional and, in comparison to some (but NOT ALL) schooling events, safer environment of a recognized event without the same expectations of the horse and rider. That's all well and good. However, recognizing it as a division is a bit much, in my opinion.
What if the USEA provided a set of recommended standards for the Intro level. Then schooling events could claim whether or not they are providing a level that fits said standards.
I see a lot of riders at the BN level that really ought to check out schooling events before spending the money on a recognized. By emphasizing recognized as the end all be all, you're really detracting from nice schooling events with an atmosphere that most riders (and horses) need, even if they do not want to admit it to themselves. Riders will go to the recognized rather than the schooling events, which perpetuates the problem of the "not safe" jumps at schooling events (and yes, I've seen some, but I've seen plenty of nice ones) because the schooling events won't have the money to maintain their courses.

"If they aren't ready, why are they competing in a dangerous sport (horse back riding, never mind the eventing angle)? "

I meant more, why is the focus on competing rather than learning, at that point.
(And yes, I think unrecognized Intro fits into learning).

I agree 110% with what JER said.

OK, I can see many of you don't agree with me. That's OK. But you've got to look at it from a "new to the sport" angle. Where I live, there simply aren't SAFE unrecognized mini-events, or they are HOURS away. I visited one mini-event. I wasn't impressed with the shoddy construction of xc fences in which a horse could put a hoof through a gap in materials, the rusty barbed wire fences woven between fences, the even more rusty, old farm implements in the field, overgrown weeds/grass, one port-a-potty (full and stinky) for one hundred people, one water hydrant for all the horses... I value my horse and my own hide a little more to compete at a place like that!

I guess I will stick to dressage shows and "D" series hunter shows. Sounds like I will be welcomed a little bit more. I KNOW they are more than happy to take my money.

If you all want the sport to grow, there has to be a SAFE, well run USEA recognized competitions that are willing to take the starter level entrants. Why not make it a learning environment and not place the value on competition or ribbons? You know, I might be just the person who buys a fancy event horse from a breeder, and take it to an event trainer AND I might even need training and coaching? Come on, Starter level competitors don't have cooties!

I think that the intro division is a great addition to our sport. The hunters have their long stirrup/short stirrup divisions. It's about time that we have a user friendly division for kids, beginner adults and young horses. My pony, who is a four year old just completed his first intro at Ram tap where he ended up second. He's ready for beginner novice, but it was a pleasure to have the intro option. I think the division should be recognized and embraced by everyone in our sport. It is clearly a path to making eventing a safer sport. It is also clearly a financially sound addition. Bill Burton will tell you at his April show, Intro was the largest division!

example of numbers.

Island 22 2009
Intermediate into - no XC - 2 riders
Prelim - 11
Open Training - 13
Pre training JR - 18
Pre Training SR - 33
Entry JR - 9
Entry SR - 22
Pre-Entry Jr - 9
Pre Entry SR - 20
we dont have a starter level at our course.

Island 22 2008
Prelim - 12
Open Training - 25
Pre training JR - 17
Pre Training SR - 25
Entry JR - 25
Entry SR - 29
Pre-Entry Jr - 13
Pre Entry SR - 18
we dont have a starter level at our course.