Tuesday discussion: Making better XC riders from Omega Alpha

I think that the issue of cross country riding is something that needs to be addressed now. I competed at the Colorado Horse Park three day event and horse trials last weekend. I saw some amazing rides that really gave me hope but i also saw some rides that made me cringe and look away. With a new generation of riders coming up through the ranks i believe that it is really important for riders to take the time to learn and apprentice from more experienced riders who have conditioned horses for long-formats, ridden in all situations, ect. The article was right, think about the state of our potential WEG team, if we were to loose two or three riders, our team would be devistated. Just some things to think about!! =)

This has been brought up before, and I'm not sure if it was here or on the COTH BB, but there is a general lack of XC schooling going on. Riders are spending more time on their dressage and SJ skills to stay competitive, so XC schooling has been reduced to once a month, or every other month including competitions(at least in my area, IV). The problem is that when dangerous riding and barely making it over obstacles happens at events, riders tend to forget the particular issue if they don't end up having a stop or it doesn't affect their score.

When riders go schooling with a trainer, they tend to focus on one or two obstacles at a time, while their horses stand and wait for the other horses to go in between turns. This does not give the same feeling as riding a full XC course. Schooling water, banks and ditches every once in a while is not enough. Horses need to learn how to listen to their riders and balance up before fences instead of plowing around the course in an unsafe manner. A bigger emphasis should also be placed on conditioning the horse and rider. Long slow work is not seen as much anymore because it's boring and time consuming. Unfit horses and riders going out on XC is a dangerous mix because both can make mistakes due to fatigue.

I think the solution is more awareness of correct XC riding techniques, including hacking and/or hunting, etc. Also, more time spent schooling several fences together as a "mini course", so the horse and rider can learn to understand each other outside the ring and learn how to handle different obstacles correctly.

In order to produce better XC riders, we need to encourage more frequent XC practice.

I think it's a cultural change - it seems most coaches/instructors' focus these days is to improve the dressage to increase the chance of ribbons.

Greener riders spend time doing grids and SJ courses until they get better - more experienced riders are told "don't jump your horse too often" and "watch the footing, your horse only has so many steps in him". So there is a lot less hacking over uneven terrain, gallops are done on groomed & manicured footing, or worse, deleted altogether in favour of "trot sets". XC schooling happens once or twice a year (check COTH for a recent thread where this seemed to be the consensus).

I think that more and more riders are subscribing to having very structured programs where there are multiple lessons and specific skills are worked on week-by-week. This may lead to more ribbons, but it comes at the cost of riders learning to ride by the seat of their pants, without someone on the ground yelling at them, telling them what to do.

Contrast that to many Australians and Brits - where the culture is much more do-it-yourself, where kids on ponies are encouraged to ride with the big guns, perhaps at the cost of form and the perfect rider position. There seems to be more of a culture of all-around horsemanship encouraged, with children going hunting, being in Pony Club, showing, and doing Prince Philip Games. Everything helps to gain that incredible sense of balance, self-confidence, and knowledge of what they can and can't get away with in varied situations.

Lucinda Green has long had clinics where she sets up jumps without set distances, encourages riders to try things that mimic XC riding, such as being in the back seat, riding with long reins, and jumping from a walk or trot. Learning to deal with the awkward situation is just as (or more) important as riding the perfect situation -- and it expands the number of options a horse and rider can call on when faced with the inevitable un-perfect line/distance etc. on a XC course. This is part of the so-called "5th-leg" and not only do horses need to learn it, so do riders.

Blugal, you put everything I would like to say in a more eloquent form than I could!

I have to agree with not enough training - we run a x-country training park that is public. From the Entry level to Prelim. All jumps open to train on - ditches, Walden walls, trakeners, everything. Just drop in and ride. $10. And we have many weekends of lovely sun and no other events going on anywhere, and no horses training?????? Where are they?
Heck right now there is no gate house open so unless I am there collecting money you ride for free!
And still very few come out.
People have the audacity to say - ohh we jumped all the jumps it is boring???????????HUH???? No. There is no boring. That is spoiled!!
Repetition is learning. Getting out there and doing it is learning. Sitting at home is not learning. Who cares if you jump the same jump every weekend (there are 200 of them out there) you are galloping, you are exposing, you are balancing, you are learning.

When I was a kid doing training and prelim we were galloping in a field three times a week with a stop watch. We knew the track length and had to do it in an exact time to mimic so many meter per minute. That was our speed on the XC. I never see people doing this anymore. We used to head to the local chuck wagon race track to do this.
No one is out there anymore.
We did our dressage and then went to the field after.
Too many horses out there are not in shape at the training and higher levels. I cringe as an organizer seeing these poor animals cross the finish line.
We know of one eventer who was pushing to the intermediate level and I never saw her condition once. Shocker the horse went lame. and the coach doesnt say anything about it.
Long ago coaches used to teach conditioning. Not too many of them sit with their students and work on this anymore.
Conditioning the horse also conditions the rider. Half the time the rider is in worse shape than the horse.

Then there is the cost. Clinics have gotten REALLY expensive these days. The cost of riding lessons has gone up. I cant begrudge the coaches - they have to pay their gas and expenses too. But it has hurt us no doubt about it. More and more people are just winging it. And too many are becoming book experts and figuring it out based on the video or book but with no hands-on experience.

I would love to see more and more coaches offering free course walks open to anyone. I would love to see more coaches at the events with their students getting them through the event for free rather than charging them for the whole weekend. Make it easier to gain more knowledge, this would improve the safety, this would improve our sport and in the end the coaches get more money as more people take more lessons.

As for the lowest levels. We are seeing a drop in the number of riders entering our sport and there is a large group of us that feel that the ridiculous number of memberships and fees and surcharges and crap that is needed to enter a pre-entry below baby level is crazy. How are you going to attract new blood when it costs a ridiculous amount of money before entry fees to jump over a log on the ground no bigger than a stadium jump pole?

The opportunity is out there to learn to improve to expand. A lot of riders and even coaches have gotten lazy. It needs to be done for them, needs to come to them. There are some excellent riders out there that just need the push in the right direction with the right mind set of what is needed to really get there.
You can still have a job and be an eventer for a hobby but dont expect to accomplish anything over night.

I think that expense is a huge issue, at least for me. I am 25 and make enough to cover the bills and thats pretty much it. I have no extra money for a horse, let alone to go schooling more than twice a year if that. The barn I ride at has great instructors, and they are awesome about letting me work off lessons, horse fees, and using their horses for shows, clinics, etc. But again, these are not my animals and I must follow their schedule. While I am getting a lot of valuable coaching and a great opportunity to show when I don't have a horse, it is still incredibly frustrating to not have the time or resources to really improve in my riding.

How do other adult ammy horseless riders do it?

Honestly....there was crappy crappy crappy xc riding 20 years ago too. Rides that you turned your head away from. And great rides as well. This is really a new issue. But we do have fewer riders with that natural feel that is so critical to being an effective xc rider.

What has changed is that we have more riders who have started riding focused on eventing only. They are not out fox hunter, race riding or doing other things. Now you can start eventing at logs on the ground...and only ever go to events (not other outings). That produces a less rounded rider...and eventers are supposed to be the most well rounded.

XC skills do NOT come for training and teaching...they are refined with training and teaching. XC skill are mostly not is not something you learn as much as you "feel." And that sort of feel you only get by doing.

What does this mean to me....LESS control and LESS formal training...more time spent just riding OUT. Time spent going xc...literally. Jumping the fence that is in your way...getting comfortable with speed and how to control it without someone shouting instructions all the time. Play with things...and find out what works AND what doesn't work by just doing it. Too may of today's riders spend all their time in lessons....not learning to just plain figure things out outside of the ring and outside of instruction.

This doesn't help with how to make things better in the immediate future. My only solution more long term and is to focus on the youngest riders starting out. Get them OUT of the ring. Get them to paper chases....get the out running in the open on their ponies and having fun. No it will not all ways be in control...that is the point. We need to triple our efforts to keep open space....and we need to make an effort to get our young riders out in that open space.

I think the difference from Boyd and Phillip form the younger eventer's these days is their range of knowledge of all different types of riding. Both have to said to have done "point-2-point" racing, along with many other types like steeplechasing. I think by trying different seats and really stretching your knowledge base and you and your horse's abilities, you can be better prepared for the xc course. Of course, these days there are more safety concerns with racing and whatnot, but there are safe ways to do it, and plenty of safety gear to go along with it now! Fox hunting is another fantastic sport that is falling through the cracks, but is a great way to really bond with your horse and tackle challenging jumps and terrain.
Also, people are getting too comfortable in the rings, and tend to just go out for a morning or afternoon xc schooling every once in a while. Riders and horses would both benefit more if they rode outside the rings more often, even for flatwork. It would not only be a great form of conditioning for both you and your horse, but it would expose you both to more things that could potentially cause a loss of attention at an event. Think of how much your horse trusts you in the dressage arena, when you ask him to trot down the centerline towards the scary judge's box. He's okay with it because you have done it numerous times. Well, the more you get out and gallop through various terrains for both jumping and flatwork, the more your horse will begin to trust you and do what you ask.

:)

damn...I wish there was an edit function for these comments! Sorry for all the typos!

‘The first step is admitting there is a problem’ I often see riders and/or coaches bashing cross country rides at local events. Yes, I do agree that there is not enough emphasis on cross country, but it is also important to note that when you see a rider have a really awful jump at fence #5 while you are walking your course… chances are you did not have the chance to watch fences 1-4 or 6-16. We all have bad fences and make mistakes – something to keep in mind. What is important is that we learn from our mistakes. Just because you are at a competition does not mean you are incapable of learning something. Maybe you over rode the drop into water – remember that – work on it at home, come back, and do better the next time! You are allowed to make mistakes, just don’t keep making the same one!

The HOME in homework. If you don’t have a particular skill at home, you are not going to magically acquire it at your show. Coaches shouldn’t feel the need to be teaching their students new skills in the warm up. No new galloping positions should be discussed 10 minutes before the rider starts on course. Coaches can give valuable insight when walking a course, but they need to stick to keeping their riders calm and confident on the way to the start box, not distressing them in warm up.

If I had a million dollars… Money certainly plays a big role. By the time you fill your truck up with gas and pay your coach (and don’t forget the ever increasing grounds fees) schooling cross country becomes a fair investment. Fox hunting can be a great way to get out in the open and ride, but you still have the gas money, and some of the hunt club memberships are ridiculously expensive! In order to be a beneficial option for eventers, these facilities and groups need to be more available. In addition to considering riding in as many different places, over different terrain, and with different fences.. riders can also ride a variety of horses. You can learn something new from every horse you are on, and then when your horse does something out of characteristic on course.. Voila! You have a handy dandy tool you picked up from riding so and so’s horse that will keep you in the saddle. Ride your friends’ horses, coaches’ horses, ride all the lesson horses you can find.

Ride and reward. Most of us have used basic principles of operant conditioning to train our dogs, horses, or perhaps spouses. Reinforcement to encourage positive behavior, and punishment to diminish the occurrence of negative behavior. I do not see much in the way of motivation, especially at the lower levels, for riders to put more effort into good cross country riding. Their motivation is the big blue ribbon at the end of the weekend, and the quickest way to that ribbon is through a low dressage score and leaving the rails up in stadium. All they have to do is “get through” cross country. Perhaps through rewarding the best conditioned horse, or the best cross country ride.. young riders would be more motivated to practice their skills at home. Reward riders who take their time to put in a safe rider without jumping faults, reward riders who realize they are having a terribly off day and retire on course, reward riders who prepare at home and have a clean, safe, and fast ride around the course!

WHEW! I think I finished my novel!

and dont ride only in nice weather!! Events are often held in the pouring rain.

Our courses are mostly designed to gallop from one fence to the next, re-adjust the horse and show jump the fence. If you are show jumping everything you're not riding cross country.

I recently stumbled on a youtube video of a very BNT of the "old school" giving a XC lesson to a N/T type rider. EVERY SINGLE fence of the entire school-oxers, banks, ditches, brush jumps-- was show jumped and the commentary made it very clear that that was the intent of the coach. You feel pretty stupid clucking to a computer screen, but nothing was galloped out of hand.

Coaches are going to teach what the courses ask.

Ok, so.... I may have overwritten on this topic....

The disintegration of effective riding in the States is not limited only to a single discipline. Hunter and Jumpers are heavily criticized in publications by European trainers because of their exceptionally poor form, and Dressage riders are often commented on for their dependency on “aids” for successful Dressage tests. Eventing (Cross Country in particular) is not the sole culprit in attracting competitors with an inappropriate lack of skill, but unfortunately it often seems that way due to the high level of risk that is inherent in our particular discipline of the Equestrian sport.

The problem is multi-faceted, really. There is no one incident in which a person may point their finger and say, “There! That is when Eventing in the U.S. took a turn for the worse!” Instead it has been more of a gradual backslide into a place where cringe-worthy rounds and “skin of our teeth” completions are commonplace enough to not warrant the outrage they probably deserve. That is, until someone gets put in a coma.

One of the issues that is at the foundation of America’s increasingly slipshod Eventing style is the poorly proportioned levels of amateur enthusiasm for the sport versus the lack of available training opportunities to succeed at said sport. The United States, as a country that has automated many of the daily necessary tasks required for living and therefore statistically boasting the highest number people with “leisure time” in the world, is also home to an astounding number of “Amateur” riders in the Eventing sport. For every one professional Eventer, there are thousands of non-professionals, all of which have the same dreams and aspirations of competing at a level that is personally challenging to them. And because the general opinion in America is that any person should be allowed to realize their dreams (and they should!), Eventing organizations in this country have devised competitive levels that cater to a lesser standard of riding accomplishment than in other countries.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I too am an Amateur competitor and I believe that everyone deserves to feel the rush and satisfaction of completing their cross country round on a double clear, Horse and Rider unified by the love of their sport no matter what the level. There is no greater feeling in my book. But the fact remains that by introducing a lower level of riding as the standard of competition, eventing organizations in America have created an environment with a greater margin for rider error. Especially since the introduction of levels like Beginner Novice and Green as Grass has done nothing to abate the Thirst that exists in our sport to somehow reach that Shangri La of all levels, Prelim!

Historically, many riders have found it comparatively easy to quickly move from GaG, to Beg Novice, to Novice, due in part to the relative similarity of challenges presented in each of their levels. But as the learning curve steepens and the physical demands of the sport begin to impact their previously unconcerned mounts, I have found that many riders who may not have received (or even pursued) the proper foundation of training for Cross Country still push themselves up the levels without understanding the technical or athletic challenges that (literally) loom ahead of them. By the time these competitors realize that “going fast” and “jumping clean” are not the only elements that make up a successful Cross Country test, they may already have gotten injured and permanently destroyed the trust and confidence of their horse-partner forever.

The levels at which I witness the most nail-biting moments always seem to be either Training or Prelim, wherein horses who lack the physicality for Cross Country are being pushed to the limits of their capabilities, or riders who lack the knowledge and skill to perform safely over tougher challenges panic and fail to guide their mounts appropriately. And where are the trainers when this is going on? Often, they are committing the same sins as their students, but at a higher standard. Cross Country training in particular suffers when a rider climbs levels, due partly to the inconvenience it presents and partly to the wear and tear to does to a horse. Those who wish to compete at Eventing may only school Cross Country courses once or twice between show seasons, without realizing the disservice they are doing to their horse. Conditioning, once such an important factor in this sport, seems to have fallen by the wayside in favor of intense focus on the Dressage phase. And while dressage is definitely an important and deciding factor in the performance of an event horse, the useful elements learned in the discipline (such as balancing on the hind, lifting in the shoulder, and pushing with the rear) are not always applied in the Jumping phases. This again comes down to a lack of knowledge concerning the technicality that exists in Cross Country.

These issues are only a foundation to the hosts of reasons why Cross Country riding has fallen into a slump in America. The problem is a vicious spider web, interconnected and sticking upon itself wherever the points touch. For example, one might say that riders fail to walk their Cross Country courses often enough, or favor breeds that favor Dressage but have no natural inclination for Cross Country jumping, but it all comes back to a poor understanding in this country of the elements that define appropriate Cross Country riding; A simple lack of Knowledge.

And while identifying the issues is certainly part of what is necessary to produce a solution, the real question remains: What can be done to produce better Cross Country Riders at All eventing levels? Just as the problem was developed through the attributing factors of a hundred little things, so too must the solution be a combination of a Thousand minor efforts by riders all over this country. Eventing needs a total change of attitude concerning Cross Country, a change that instating rules for eliminations and frangible jumps has failed to inspire. If anything, the typical American competitor has been taught to dread and resent Cross Country through these methods, not seek to better understand it. I would love to see a rise in educational opportunities for all riders of this sport to garner more knowledge from the “Scholars,” if you will, of eventing. In turn, I would hope to see a decline in the severity of competitiveness that often fuels riders to make unsafe choices for themselves and their horses, and that the Eventing community would stop rewarding those who do make such choices and manage to pull off a frightening performance because of it.

I am fortunate to be in an Area (V!) where, despite our distance from some of the most pertinent competitions and clinics of our sport, we still manage to host a multitude of training experiences and “learner-friendly” events every year. I am a firm believer that competitions are not meant to be won, but learned from, and I know that my fellow competitors also believe this to be true. We may not be the most successful competitors on paper, but I would not trade the admiring praise of my peers over a well-ridden round for any color ribbon. And isn’t that a life lesson that extends far beyond the riding arena? Consideration for your personal standards and the needs of those around you (especially your horse!) by far outweighs the accolades of others. With that in mind, Go Eventing!

Want to improve your XC? Go foxhunting! Get over the misconception that foxhunters are "crazy" and that hunting will "ruin" your horse. There is an obvious difference in the riding of those that grew up riding in the hunt field vs. those that grew up in the arena. The only way to learn to ride XC is to get out and do it. :-)

What is the biggest secret of cross-country riding? Course design. If riders knew what a cross country fence was asking them to do, then they will learn how to ride to answer the question. I believe that making the basic concepts of course design available to every eventer, treating every USEA member to a bright, heads-up engaging educational seminar on course design will go a long way to fixing this problem. From the lowliest beginner novice rider on up, we could all learn something about the basics of course design, striding, what a horse sees when it jumps, and what a rider needs to do with their body. There are some incredibly talented communications experts out there, that are also eventers and we need to put them in a room with our best course designers and media people and come out with a neat little seminar to take on the road. I would love to see this at a briefing before an event; at an Area convention or annual meeting; at a Year End Awards ceremony; on the bed of a pickup truck in the campground. Education is the way forward, and the more we all know about the cross-country portion of the sport, the safer we all will be. It's our future.

We have the same problem in the UK at lower levels and its never the kids its always the adults who look dreadful! It comes down to the fact they have taken up riding at a later age and have not had the all round PC education as horses are expensive and they now own their first horse when they can afford it.

I think my xc is probably the strongest of the phases but thats because I spent my childhood falling off over hedges out hunting! I learnt how to sit back over drops, let the horse use its neck when we had a mistake and stay in the saddle. Its not fun falling off as an adult and I would not want to do it all again.

The best book I read was by a Swedish army officer who said they were all made to develop a seat during the 1950s/60s by being placed on a horse bareback with just a neckstrap and blindfolded. The field was rutted and had natural ditches and they were made to do it over and over again as they all fell off time and time again but in the end they developed balance and a good seat as well as a natural sense of how to not hinder the horse.

In the UK now riders are told at the end of the xc ride if they are a cause for concern. They are often told to go and get xc lessons with an accredited trainer. Maybe there should be more of this to help people in the long term. The secret to riding success is to keep working hard and to keep trying to improve your skills. The best xc rider in Germany practices xc everyday with all his horses.

In my opinion the solution to this question is very complex on so many levels.
I think that the classical solution of "KISS" "keep it simple stupid" has not lost its truth. Time in the saddle with and without stirrups over varied terrain...plus good instruction.

However, we are in a unique time in history...a huge ecomomic recession/depression has made a frontal assault on all who want to strive for excellence in their riding and/or just want to ride for the love of horses. I do not think that we can discount the impact of the economy on both the athlete and the horses. Comparing today with a time of a robust economy is comparing apples and oranges.

In response to a question from Chris on the Eventing Radio Show, Boyd Martin gives voice to the usually unspoken "class" prejudice and cultural backdrop. In Germany, a parent would be proud to tell a friend that their child was going to be a dressage rider. In Australia, the same for Boyd going to appprentice with Heath Ryan. In the USA, a college education is first and nothing else is a close second. This emphasis on a college education in America delays the opportunity for a total emersion for four, five, or six years.

Like a diamond, this question has many facets and each country, culture, and family sees the same "opportunity" through different glasses.

Decrease the cost of events. Lower cost = More competition experience(and in some cases)= better riding due to decreased stress level. The more you are placed into a stressful situation, the better, you are able to function in that situation. Also, if you do 2 events/ month for say 2-3 months, the amount of importance placed upon each event will decrease. I do realize that the event organizers are not in this to make money, and I am not entirely sure what we can do to decrease the cost. Perhaps we can look at eventing in Europe and the UK and Australia for suggestions.

Agree with Retreadeventer and good idea. Would like to know more about xc course design. Maybe the education could be in the form of a webinar and a video series?

First off- great topic!
now lets get to business.....

A way to implement better XC riding....several ways

one of which would be not having green eventers moving up when their not ready. Or not even green anyone as in a training to prelim move or even prelim to intermediate. Many people move to novice from BN just because "their horse is bored".

NO you dont move up a level because your horse is not looking or spooking at the jumps or because hes gone prelim and yu want to get to interemediate ASAP you do it when you're READY until you could alsmot do it "blind folded" until you walk of XC and say that was easy.

Another way is implementing the importance of XC schooling and about how you can't just show up to an event expecting to do fine when you're horse has never seen a ditch, bank, or water, or any type of solid obstacle. You have no business being at an event....for example if a simple log is in XC WU and a horse flat out stops at it....chances are you shouldn't being running that level....

Another is also implementing the importance of SAFETY
maybe have "clinics" on it

yeah there are several articles about when to move up, how to be safe on XC, but I truely think that doesn't get people understanding that you can't (shouldn't) move up when you simply want

Example: If your horse has a water issue don't move up to training when your horse is hydrophobic ( I'm getting fancy on ya :) and you know there could (chances are yes) have a log, drop, or something into or out of the water

another one is ditches

you see it's the simple things that can screw you over....needless to say DON'T MOVE UP UNLESS YOU HAVE THE "BASICS"

moving on to help the pros...

hopefully this one will be shorter ;)

I do have to say that at Rolex this year I think there was a lot less sloppy riding

I mean maybe we could implement more training sessions with Capt Mark Phillips
more safety sessions
just practice XC more

I think I'm finished :)

And I'm sure I don't need to put my email but I figured I would anyways.... mckdorito@comcast.net

I don't think it's so much practicing jumping cross country as it is RIDING cross country. I think fox hunting & 25 mile endurance rides are great for teaching new(ish) riders to go and deal with the less than perfect situations. A horse that is fit enough to do an hours worth of flat work 5 days a week is fit enough to finish (not run to win, but finish well) a 25 mile ride. If you can learn to balance and then leave your horse alone to do its job you're learning to actually ride. After learning that, adding some jumps is easy. I see a lot of people at events that rarely ride outside of level footing except at events and I find that frightening.

All I can say is Practice-Practice-Practice!!!
Phillip Dutton has stated several times that his horses Understand the questions on XC. The only way that is possible is practice! I Practice XC every week, and when I hack I trot over the ditch, up or down a bank, go thru the water. I gallop at 520 mpm without jumping so my horses learn to balance themselvs at speed over uneven terrain. My mare Understands the questions asked on most prelim courses, the speed required and the striding. Watch Phillip ride and you will see a loose rein over the most difficult combinations. You can't ride like that if your horse doesn't understand the question and your horse can't understand the question if you haven't trained it!
GO CROSS COUNTRY!

As previous commenters have stated, there are multiple causes of the decline in XC riding.
To start, in Europe especially, kids grow up riding ponies. In the US, kids are riding horses long before they're ready. When you fall off a pony, you can brush yourself off and get up again, but falling off a horse is a lot scarier and more dangerous. Kids in Europe are a lot bolder than in the US, and it shows in their riding. The result? We see US horses coming into solid fences off a showjumping canter because our kids never got the chance to learn to gallop in with guns blazing on their little pony.
The lack of XC schooling scares me. I can't imagine going to a show without being totally prepared for every phase. The mindset of a lot of riders is: XC doesn't really matter because as long as I get over it, it doesn't matter how well I get over it. But I don't understand why riders don't want to school XC. XC is the FUN part of eventing! Schooling and prepping for an event should be fun. You should be eventing because you want to, not because you feel you have to.
I guess if I had to pick one single reason for the decline in XC riding and in eventing in general is the change towards serious/professional/competitive eventing instead of the fun side. I see eventers practicing their 20m circles every day to win the dressage instead of conditioning their horse. I guess I'd like to see people going out and eventing because they love to event and gallop and jump, not just because they want to win or make a living off it.
Oh and I love the idea of awarding the best conditioned horse. Perhaps a 5point penalty reduction for the best horse, 4points off for the next horse, 3 points for the next and so on.... Perhaps that would encourage a bit more XC practice?
And its 10PM CA time, but not east coast time, so I hope that still makes the cutoff.

Something I did not do justice in my previous comment, but perhaps the most valid point regarding what action needs to take place in order for a chance in cross country riding to occur, simply stated: there needs to be a change in riders’ mentality.

While I prepared for my first training level horse trails, in addition to teaching me new dressage movements and refining my cross country skills, my coach told me about the mentality I should have out on course. I could go out and jump around like it was just an oversize novice – and probably get away with it- but if I wanted to prepare and continue advancing my skills I had to go out and ride like every fence was three feet wide and four feet tall. Not in a sense of “over riding” the fences, but in a sense of being overly accurate. If your mentality is that the fences are only so high, and we can get around, that is what you will do. Just get around. If your mentality is that you are going to go out, and do your best to ride flawlessly – you are setting yourself up to improve. If every time you jump a 12’ wide fence, you dedicate yourself to a particular take off and landing spot (and make it happen!) when the fences narrow, it won’t seem so daunting. The beauty of preparation! To create better cross country rides, the riders simply have to care about more than just getting by! It is amazing what determination in a rider can do! Most of us have watched a rider, wrapped around their horse’s neck and destined to hit the ground, hoist themselves back into the saddle with a look of intense determination on their face. As much as riding different horses, over different terrain, and cross training in other disciplines can help someone become a better rider.. as much as riding bareback, without stirrups, without reins can influence one’s “stickablity” when it comes down to it, out on course, riders can not consistently put forth good cross country rides without the proper mentality. As an aside, I know these comments are warring for the supplement prize – but can I forfeit myself? I just want to share my thoughts.

I wonder if there is any correlation between the decline in cross country riding skills and the decline in buyers searching for xc packers. I remember not too long ago when parents would step all over each other to purchase a horse that wouldn't win the dressage phase, but that knew it's job and could safely and effectively get their kid around a cross country course while teaching the kid how to ride. Now, you can't sell a xc packer for its true worth unless it's also a dressage master. That's disturbing to me because kids should be focusing on gaining good experience and having fun, not on winning the dressage phase.

WOW - Did I ever learn a LOT by reading all these posts....awesome!
Since I have nothing 'smart' to say that has not already been said (plus some)...I would like to say that Theo, the Brickland Eventing puppy has his work cut out for him...and he is one of the cutest pups ever.

Speaking from the perspective of an eventing neophyte in the process of preparing a horse for our first BN trials (coming up FAST, in July!) and on a VERY thin shoestring budget to boot, I have to say that it's been particularly hard to prepare myself and my horse for the XC phase. I'm fortunate to have her at a farm where, despite the lack of an indoor arena, there are lots of fields and hills for gallops and conditioning work. As such, I feel VERY well prepared when it comes to conditioning (she's currently doing 3x (4' gallop @400m/m, 8' trot) and back to resting heart rate and respiration within 10'), working on uneven terrain, going through water, etc. Yes, she's fit and knows how to ride over bumpy ground. However, when it comes to riding a XC jump course, it's a different story -- or rather it might be: I honestly don't really know!

It's easy to say that people need to spend more time schooling on the XC course, and it's true. When it comes right down to it, the two biggest factors at work are access and cost. Despite having plenty of fields and trails to ride, there's next to nothing when it comes to things to jump. Heck, there's only two working sets of jump standards and one (yes, one!) jump rail on the place. So I improvise, scraping together old PVC pipes, 2x4's, landscape timbers, hay bales, barrels, fallen limbs, barrels and buckets to work on the stadium phase. Still, it's tough to say we're prepared even for THAT when the best I can do is two or three jumps at a time. She may be able to do a three-stride double at 3'3", come back, switch leads and turn around to take it in the other direction, but does that mean she can do a whole course of 15 jumps at 2'7"? I wish I knew the answer to that!

When it comes to XC, I can't drag around huge logs by myself, there's no jumpable ditches to speak of and I'm not about to try and take my horse over a five foot woven wire fence! Believe me, I've looked all over the place for things to jump and there's VERY little that can be jumped reasonably! We do what we can with the occasional brush pile or fallen tree and that's really the best I can do. She's never even SEEN a bank or a rail over a ditch. I'd LOVE to get her out somewhere with a real XC course but, when it comes down to it, I can't afford to. The closest place I know of requires a two hour trailer ride with all the gas costs that go along with it, not to mention having to borrow someone's truck and trailer and make a whole day of it just to get it done. That's BEFORE any course fees, insurance charges, etc. I really don't know how much it would cost in all because the logistics issues alone have prevented me from digging too deeply!

It's going to cost me about $300.00 just in entry fees for the horse trials, plus the extra supplies and equipment I've had to/still need to buy, plus the cost of getting her there and back, plus the cost of lodging and food for myself, plus having to pay the neighbor kid to take care of my pets while I'm away for three days. When it's all said and done, two days of BN competition are probably going to end up costing me upwards of $700 and that does NOT include the cost of a new pair of breeches, gloves, a helmet cover, etc., so I can present myself with a reasonable level of professionalism (I do this not out of vanity but out of respect for the judges, organizers and volunteers!) I'm a graduate student making peanuts, I've had to sacrifice and squirrel away money just to make the show happen and, regrettably, that doesn't leave, well, ANYTHING to drag her around the state for XC schooling. Did I mention I don't have money for (or local access to) an eventing coach either?

I have to admit to suffering more than a little bit of anxiety about the situation, wondering whether we're really prepared and, to be honest, it may well be a seat-of-the-pants XC ride (stadium may not go much better, when she sees the brightly colored jumps, spectators, judges, etc.). My biggest worry, to be honest, is that more seasoned competitors are going to deride us for what we have not been able to do in preparation. I do the best I can but I can only do what I can do without straining the budget any further. Still, I'm determined to get her through the horse trials, not to win but just for the fun and the experience of going there and doing it. I'd love to say that I'll have the grace to withdraw her if it looks like we're overfaced but, given the (to me, monumental) cost of getting her there, I know I'm going to be VERY tempted to push her through it regardless of how things are going. Is that wrong? If so, please let me know before June 22nd while I can still get a full refund of her entry fees, less the $25 mandatory office charge! I really hope I'm not about to become another statistic in the "what's wrong with eventing today" book!

Adam, I understand your position as I have to travel 150 miles for a lesson from a Professional Trainer. You would be doing yourself AND your horse a favor by using the money for lessons BEFORE entering a H.T..
If something goes wrong it could take months to fix which would cost even more if a Professional needs to ride it or for lessons. Too many things can go wrong if the horse isn't prepared.

Adam if you do withdraw make sure you still go to the event, walk the course and maybe try to find someone who is going and tag along with them as a groom. be a fly on the wall and learn everything that you need to work on.
And I agree - paying for some decent lessons rather than diving into the event would be safer payoff in the end for you. You will have much more fun at your first event then and will feel tons more prepared. Good luck and Go Eventing.

Well, it's not really her ability I'm concerned about: as I said, she's fit enough, according to most folks I've talked to, to do a level up from where she's entered and can consistently clear 3'+ over a 45 minute schooling session (and stay relaxed, under control and responsive to boot!). I'm confident that she's at least PHYSICALLY capable of handling the BN courses. What worries me is the atmosphere and the fact that she's never seen a complete XC course, nor a stadium course of the extent we'll be faced with.

That said, she does have some show experience under her belt in the form of hunter pace last Fall with jumps up to around 2'6" and a few local h/j schooling shows. In all cases, she did fine aside from being (understandably) wound up and generally unable to stand still for more than about 30 seconds. In fact, we were in the ribbons in every class she's gone in. However, compared to the HT, those were pretty tame in terms of atmosphere.

I don't doubt that extra lessons and some genuine XC schooling time would be a HUGE confidence booster for both of us. On the other hand, I don't think it will necessarily get either of us past the atmosphere issue and that $700 isn't going to go very far considering travel costs and probably $60-$100 a pop for lesson fees. No matter what, the first time is going to be scary and new for both of us. What I really wish I had right now is someone that could simply tell us either we're ready or we're not so I don't have to keep second-guessing myself. My gut feeling is that it's mostly just nerves -- I've done everything I can, short of going broke, to get her prepared -- but it's really tough to be objective when all you have is yourself as a judge. I know she's got the heart and the talent to go clean but I have to be there to support her, 100%. Unfortunately, reading this thread has NOT been a huge confidence-booster!

Oh well... I'm off to ride. Wish us luck we don't get rained on!

well good luck Adam and you better send John a report on your first event so we know how it went!!!

Adam - to be blunt, you are not prepared. Being fit is not the same as having the skills to tackle XC. It sounds like you and your horse could really use some practice of XC prior to showing. $700 would go towards many more schoolings than just one event - and as someone else mentioned - XC schooling is fun!! Most days I'd rather do 3 XC schools than 1 event.

Use the $700 and go XC schooling and take in another local show or two - that will help you two get used to atmosphere and be MUCH cheaper. There is always another event in the future.

As far as costs, maybe you could save some on the clothes - you should be able to buy some of the show clothes 2nd hand (Men's jackets don't have to be RIDING jackets, and don't have to be black or navy - a grey or tweed will be fine).

Jumping silly things like muck buckets or rails with plastic bags and tarps over them can be a good way to get horses used to jumping "unnatural" obstacles... and most horses will give you more fuss over silly things like that than a natural looking wood or brush fence.

At home I use three poles to make a "dummy ditch" two poles parallel to each other with the third diagonally across them. No - it is not the same as a ditch, but it is a jump with no height. Jumping a varity of fences, corners, triplebars, tall and narrow oxers, ascending oxers, square oxers, low but wide oxers, hogsbacks etc, etc, can prepare you for the different fences you will see on course.

More horses have problems being out away from their friends, than have problems with the actual fences.

Horse trail atmosphere is a lot about what you make it. Your horse will tend to feed off your own energy, stay calm and relaxed and so will your equine - to some extent! As far as the atmosphere out on cross country - especially at lower levels it is pretty tame. You are more likely to finish the course without hearing a single person than vice-versa.

Even if you only have one fence, if you can put it up in a pasture or open field, you can get your horse revved up a bit and galloping around, then work on collecting her back up for the fence. It is good to practice adjustablity, learn how much it will take to get her going and bring her back.

hey John I thought you were going to post a winner!!

If you don't pick soon, your going to have to make up for the delay by giving away the puppy as the prize! Kidding of course...but theo really is adorable!

I'd take the puppy, in lieu of supplements!

Wow, sorry it took me so long to post on this topic as promised, but I guess it's lunchtime somewhere... Kidding aside, the response to this topic has been incredible, and it's an instant "Best of EN." I consulted Theo and he gives the SillyHorse the win because of the suggestions to ride as many horses as possible and the operant conditioning reference (Theo is a psychology buff). Theo said he hoped SillyHorse would try the supplements or share them with someone at her barn.

In all reality, all of the comments are superb, showing once again the quality of Eventing Nation's readers. We will have enough of these that over time I hope everyone will win. Thursday is a travel day, but my goal is to find time over the weekend to do a recap of this post and touch on the most important topics from the best comments.

Adam--shoot me an email (eventingnation@gmail.com) and, depending on where you are located, I'll see if I can pull some strings to help you out. Thank you to Blugal for, as always, some sage advice on this matter.

Adam-

first off I don't know where you're located but how on earth did this cost you 700 dollars? Are you starting at an "away" event?

and then way to be creative with your jumps! ANd although you may not want to hear this but I think I might hold off on the recignized event...have you tried for an unrecignized, their more laid back, and less ( a lot) strict. Save the money and go XC schooling as others have said its amazing and super fun! besideds why go to your first event all stressed about weather you should be there, if you belong, or if you're going to make it!

If you do decide to go my advice....take it one phase at a time, one stride at a time, one jump at at time :)

go eventing!

First off, a big thank you to all who have responded to my post. (And I'm sorry for having sort of hijacked this thread for personal reasons -- it really wasn't my intent!) I appreciate the candor in your responses and I certainly have some things to think about. A couple of points on my personal situation and then I'll actually make a substantive contribution to the thread! ;-)

First off, on the subject of preparedness, I guess I'm one of those people in the "well read, not highly experienced" category, at least in terms of -eventing- experience. I've only seen big events and that's my yardstick for what one is like, atmosphere-wise. I would definitely not consider my mare and I ready for that. However, if it's fairly low-key, I'm confident she'd be fine. She's actually very good about being away from her friends -- not AS good if it's away from home, but she definitely has learned to rely on me in that department. Once she gets going at a show, she's fine.

As for why it's costing so much, the horse trials are roughly three hours from here and the rig I'll be driving gets about 10mpg -- I expect the gas alone to be in excess of $100.00. Factor in shavings bales at $8.00 a pop and other odds and ends I've had to pick up and it's already at around $500 BEFORE anything I need to keep myself in one piece at the show! I've been tentatively planning on a hotel room (partly because that will make it easier to snare a helper to go with me!) but I may end up just sleeping on an air mattress in the back of the horse trailer, which would save a LOT of money! As for show clothes, I really have everything I need (lucky for me, the clothes and boots my parents bought for me 15 years ago still fit and MIGHT actually be coming back into style! ;-)) and the breeches are on order (I'm hard to fit so I can only order certain brands/models). The helmet cover is a compromise to keep me from having to order a $130 helmet (I'm hard to fit for helmets too, for the record!) and the other stuff is fairly small potatoes and there's really no good second-hand shops here for riding apparel. So, I'm a bit stuck on some things but believe me when I say I've been very resourceful in trying to keep expenditures to a minimum! A good portion of the stuff will be reusable at future events but it's stuff I didn't have, having always been able to rely on others for certain odds and ends in the past.

As for unrecognized events, they're hard to come by around here -- or at least I've only heard of one, which wasn't really an event but an organized XC schooling session at the same venue where the HT are being held. Heck, it's hard to even find a dressage schooling show around here -- it's all very h/j oriented in my locale. (I am in the Fingerlakes region of NY, fwiw) As you might have gathered, I'm not very well connected in the eventing world. I have some friends (not locally, however) that are experienced event riders who I've drawn on to the full extent possible but they're, of course, not able to help when it comes to finding local resources. To be honest, part of the HT plan is to enable a bit of networking, something that's been tough for me to do so far.

My situation is also a bit complicated in the "there's always another event" department. I call her "my" horse but I'm actually leasing her and the arrangement is due to end in mid-August. At that point, I'll be moving away and leaving her behind. So, there's a bit of "it's now or never" type pressure to take her to an event while I can. We've spent the last year and a half preparing for this and I'd be really disappointed if it didn't work out. So it may be that many of my reasons for going are selfish but, being a goal-oriented person, this is the goal I set for us many months ago and I'm still determined to try and see it through. That said, I'm not willing to put her, myself or anyone else in danger to achieve that goal.

So taking into account all of your feedback, my plan is to take her there and see how she does with the atmosphere. From my conditioning work with her, jumping out in the fields (that's about the only place I CAN jump with her here so I'm feeling quite well prepared for the open spaces issue!) and riding her at the shows I've taken her to, I know what she's like when she gets on the muscle and I know I can bring her back, keep her attention and keep her going safely. I don't care if we end up with time faults as long as she goes around clean and under control -- my goal is not to place, just to finish safely. So we'll see how it goes at the show grounds for her initial schooling and I'll decide at that point whether to run her in the trials or withdraw. I won't be getting a refund at that point so we might as well stay and do everything aside from the actual competition, that way we both get some horse trials experience, even if we don't get to do the fun part, and we'll at least get the CHANCE to compete before I have to give her up. If it doesn't work out, we'll still have great memories of going there. It would be an expensive lesson but I'd much rather withdraw than put myself, her or anyone else at risk of becoming a statistic.

Now on to the substantive contribution part...

After reading through all your comments, I've developed a different perspective on my situation. I know I'm not alone: there's a lot of other folks in my boat as well! Three things come to mind that could really help us out, particularly at the lower levels.

1) More education on exactly what it means to be ready for a given level. For example, what would you say a horse and rider should be able to do and what experiences are needed before you'd consider them prepared for BN, N, etc... Of course USEA has qualifications for leveling up but fundamentally, it's very tough for someone with little experience to meter preparedness on a very basic level. It's ideal, of course, to have a coach to tell you such things but there's a lot of folks who don't have that luxury. Some basic guidelines in print somewhere on the USEA site and/or in the rule book could go a long way toward avoiding safety issues from people entering horses who just aren't ready for a given level yet.

2) Improved access to information on local unrecognized events, cross country schooling venues (including locations, fees, hours, etc.), coaches (a more or less comprehensive directory of all instructors with eventing experience, whether USEA certified or not, would be great!), etc. -- As I said, the only XC schooling facilities and eventing coaches --I know of-- are over an hour away. I've asked around at local farms and, sadly, eventing types seem to be scarce in my neck of the woods, or at least they do a very good job of hiding! Long story short: it can be exhausting work just to FIND the help you need and I'm sure a lot of people, myself included, give up far too early and decide to go it alone.

3) Take measures to keep show costs down. I know we live in a very litigious society with all sorts of insurance requirements, liability worries, etc. and to run a good sized event requires a small army of people, tents, extra mowing and grounds keeping, extra preparations and sometimes days to fully clean up the aftermath (not to mention USEA fees and the like, if it's a recognized event) -- all costs that need to be covered by the entry fees. However, the less the events cost to enter, the more likely people are to feel like it's ok to withdraw if things aren't going well. To turn it around, the more expensive it is to get a horse into a competition, the bigger the temptation to stick with it no matter how badly things are going. Discretion may be the better part of valor but, when money is involved, discretion all too often goes out the window.

There -- that's my two cents!

Adam - This may sound lame, but go to youtube and look up Beginner Novice Horse Trials cross country. It will give you a look at various cross country courses, the atmosphere, etc, etc. On a beginner novice course, horses will often be trotting for periods of time, but still finish within the optimum time given.

If you look at RNSvideo's channel they have video from many events, including championships, and you can see the entire course.